Posted at 22:56 on November 3rd, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Master Gumby Posts: 82 | Not really the best are they? Specifically, reading grey on grey. ----- |
Posted at 08:50 on November 4th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | Forum? Site? Anyway, if it were for me, everything would be grey. It just looks good and (most importantly), it's very easy on the eyes. You're welcome to make specific suggestions for improvement, or even a whole new stylesheet, though. The forum at least can handle multiple 'skins' that way easily. On the site, it's a little more complicated, as the skinning process is already used to make all the subsections get their own colour scheme... ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! |
Posted at 09:04 on November 4th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Master Gumby Posts: 82 | I'm talking about the forum, the characters for posts as you browse. It's the only color contrast/combination that bothers me, as I'm always squinting trying to read it. It's like camo-text. The font color should be darker. As is, I think it's too light. A tad darker would be nice. ----- ----- Edited by Gargantuan Orangutan at 09:05 on November 4th, 2008 |
Posted at 14:23 on November 4th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | It always baffles me how low people's contrast settings apparantely are... anyway, the original idea was to have a good contrast between the regular text and the links. Now, thanks to Cypherswipe's earlier complaint, the links are underlined, so their contrast compared to the rest of the text isn't as crucial anymore, I guess. Vain hope: Anyone else has an opinion? ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! |
Posted at 20:14 on November 4th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Master Gumby Posts: 82 | Are you viewing your site with a CRT? Because when I viewed the forum on my other computer with a CRT (as a test) it's better. But I primarily use an LCD with lower contrast and brightness than default; so if anything, it should be easier to see. ----- |
Posted at 20:25 on November 4th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | No, I only use LCDs these days, but with brightness and contrast above the medium setting. And, well, it's not the cheapest kind of LCDs, I guess. However, it also looks good to me on my laptop screens, the CRT at work and so on and so on. ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! ----- Edited by Mr Creosote at 21:11 on November 4th, 2008 |
Posted at 11:34 on November 6th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Master Gumby Posts: 82 | So does this mean you will do nothing to fix it? Oh bleakness and futility, why am I not surprised? You're an island to yourself on every issue! ----- |
Posted at 12:11 on November 6th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | Where have I said I will not 'fix' it? As you can see in this thread, as well as in other similar ones, I'm always waiting a few days when issues like this come up, to give others a chance to voice their opinions (if they have any), too. Doing everything one person says immediately will only result in frantic changing back and forth - pointless. In any case, the only time I remember not fulfilling a wish you had was when you 'demanded' I give you a list of games on TGOD which have full CD downloads. To which I replied you have the same tools to compile such a list as I do, so you can do it yourself. To which you replied you don't have the time to do it and I'm an idiot for not doing it. Right, makes sense, because your time is obviously a lot more valuable than mine. I don't really see how that's the definition of being 'an island', but fine - whatever you say. ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! |
Posted at 12:26 on November 6th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Master Gumby Posts: 82 | Jesus Christ, why do I bother? That's not how things happened ... totally skewed perspective. Your personality is very controlling. Really, deep down you think you're right about everything. Ah well... maybe we're too much alike in that respect... who knows. But at least I'm not an island to myself. ----- |
Posted at 15:16 on November 6th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | Quote: That's not how things happened ... totally skewed perspective. Alright, you have the same chance as me to tell the world how it 'really, completely objectively was'. Quote: Really, deep down you think you're right about everything Nope. Of course I do believe I'm right about many things - that's called an opinion. However, when it comes to trivial questions like choices of colours, slight contrast changes or whatever else we're talking about here, I don't even spend much thought on those things. If you browse the forum to its beginnings, you'll learn that the whole look of it is a result of other people telling me what to make it look like. I've followed every single piece of advice / suggestion so far. Really, you don't know me. Don't pretend you do. ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! |
Posted at 17:30 on November 7th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Master Gumby Posts: 82 | Originally posted by Mr Creosote at 12:11 on November 6th, 2008: Where have I said I will not 'fix' it? As you can see in this thread, as well as in other similar ones, I'm always waiting a few days when issues like this come up, to give others a chance to voice their opinions (if they have any), too. Doing everything one person says immediately will only result in frantic changing back and forth - pointless. When do you suppose someone else will say something? Perhaps you've estranged everyone with your style. I would think you'd have more visitors. You've been around a long time, and your site is technically held together in some way, but it's like a ghost town. Quote: Alright, you have the same chance as me to tell the world how it 'really, completely objectively was'. The way I see it, I asked you to collaborate in a small way, but you wanted me to do all the work myself and reap all the benefits yourself. You expected me to be more familiar with your site than I really am. You say there are "tools" but I have no idea what you're talking about. ----- |
Posted at 20:49 on November 7th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Retired Gumby Posts: 1092 | I must say I have access to the same tools as Creosote, and well there is: an average section, showing all average rating for each user, number of reviews and similar things; a downloads page, showing the number of times each games has been downloaded; the same for docs; the the pageviews, which shows the complete list of games along number of views and a few technical ones. If you want to search for a games with CDs maybe you think the downloads one will help, but not as it just shows the names of archives, not even sizes. Then what about the pageviews? Well, that complete list is just a list of names pretty much like the one you get when asking the search engine to show all the games. So the more potent tool administrators have is just the search tool with a few extra and boring technical info. I suppose that is what Creosote wanted to say. |
Posted at 23:04 on November 7th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | Quote: When do you suppose someone else will say something? The point is not whether someone will, but to give people the chance to. That way, they can't seriously complain later on (or if they do, I can point them here). Again, see older threads - I usually give such things a week. If I were the evil dictator you apparantely see me as, don't you think I'd just either brush off what you suggested or just do it immediately, because I'm sooooo right? Quote: Perhaps you've estranged everyone with your style. Perhaps yes, perhaps not. You're really fishing in the dark here, aren't you? The question for me is whether it's really a good idea to try and get as many people as possible. Actually, forget that question - the answer is that that only leads to mediocricy (or whatever that's spelled). Quote: I would think you'd have more visitors. How do you know how many visitors the site has? If you've followed the recent news, you've seen it's enough to warrant the need for a dedicated server to keep it running. How many other sites of this kind are there which need this? Home of the Underdogs - and who else? Quote: You've been around a long time, and your site is technically held together in some way Yes, this site has seen many other sites and many people come and go, and it will still be around after pretty much all the sites and people you see now are gone. So some people don't like me - big deal. I see how many people apparantely appreciate the stability and reliability this site offers every day. The server logs and my mailbox are all the proof I need to keep me going. Quote: it's like a ghost town I've said many times that the forum is dead, yes. But never confuse that with 'silent' and 'passive' activity. People come, get what they want, and leave again. Many, many people do - all the time. It's just like that one popular related IRC channel: There are always about 100 people in the channel at any point of time, but nobody ever says anything. People are just coming, wait for the server announcements, leech files and that's it. There are two ways many other sites use to get some activity in their forums: 1. Offer really crappy downloads (technically) and offer no hints or tools to get these games running. People react by flocking in for support. 2. Force people to actively participate by restricting access to much desired contents. We do nothing of that sort here. Serious question: Do you believe the site would benefit from either? Quote: I asked you to collaborate in a small way, but you wanted me to do all the work myself and reap all the benefits yourself Well, ok, so now I've heard how you saw it and you heard how I interpreted it (i.e. that I never saw what you meant by 'collaborating' and didn't see any potential for benefits). Obviously, we got off on the wrong foot there - why not just try again from a blank sheet? I mean it, just put the hateful comments from my side and yours aside for a moment, tell me what you actually want to get done (for what purpose), and we'll see how it develops. It's that easy. Quote: You expected me to be more familiar with your site than I really am I don't know how familiar with the site you are, but I expect you to be able to use it - that's all. And if there are problems with that, I gathered you can always ask... Wandrell said it: I have no special tools to get the information you were looking for. The tool is the site. However, it's not a bad tool for the job: I'm assuming you want information about commercial CD downloads for IBM PC games. Well, just select 'PC' under 'System', 'Commercial' under 'Licence' and start going through the years starting with (to be sure to catch everything) 1990. Then go through the game entries and see what's listed under 'Downloads'. That's what I would do if I were to compile such a list - and it would take me the same amount of time as everyone else in the world (not accounting for connection speed or anything like that). In theory, I could try to ask the database directly, of course, but what would I look for there? Download size is (as Wandrell pointed out) not part of the information stored there. That's determined on the fly by the site itself when the respective page is called. There is a field describing the download verbally, but what to search for there? 'CD'? 'ISO'? Hell, it might just say 'Full Version' in some cases for all I know! There is just no way to get reliable information this way - just educated guesses. You might remember I tried naming a few CD games from the top of my head in the other thread, but the problem is that my memory of such things just isn't very good. Believe it or not - I'm sometimes browsing the site myself and find games there which I'm surprised I have supposedly reviewed them. When it comes to what game has what kind of download - well, you can probably imagine how much harder that is to remember. So this is yet another source which simply isn't reliable. The public game search interface is our best bet here - for admins and visitors alike. However, I really have to protest against Wandrell calling the technical information I gathered in the stats section 'boring'. It's really quite interesting for me. Ok, I understand that it's interesting just for me But, well, at least it ensures that missing files are found quickly, it helps me tracking down 'dead ends' in the navigation and stuff like that. Really, what I did was the site to monitor itself - so that the developer (i.e. me) can get some clues from it. But again, that's just information interesting to me and probably won't even be readable by anyone else... Long story, short synopsis: Just explain what you're trying to do (not just 'I need a list of all CD games' - if I don't know what it's for, I simply won't bother; I get all kinds of strange requests all the time, and if I don't get an explanation what something is for or if there isn't any benefit for the site as a whole, there's no way I'm going to give a positive reply), and I'll listen. One thing I've learned over the years, though, is to let ideas sink in and not to jump on every bandwagon within seconds. So please don't get nervous or assume anything just because I'm not immediately complying with your wishes. In fact, never assume when it comes to me. I only mean what I say and I say what I mean. ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! |
Posted at 17:01 on November 12th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | Back on the initial subject, I've made a few changes to the colours as requested. Text is 'virtually black' (checked with high contrast and low contrast settings - slight contrast between black links and almost-black rest of the text can be seen on the former, and everything looks black on the latter) now, and in return, all links in the post area (i.e. also in the signatures) should be underlined now. Links outside don't have any real indicator anymore due to these changes, but I gather their places in the layout classifies them as links. Before I push this to the SVN trunk as well, I'd like to test this for a few days to see if there are any unforseen effects I forgot (e.g. any links not being visible as such). Since I didn't really see a problem with contrast before, some sort of quick confirmation whether that issue is resolved would be nice as well, of course. Edit: Forgot to say - if you don't see any changes, make sure you clear your browser cache. ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! ----- Edited by Mr Creosote at 18:17 on November 12th, 2008 |
Posted at 07:48 on November 16th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Retired Gumby Posts: 740 | Damn, I missed all the excitement, I need to visit this forum more often. :-\ *btw, it's very annoying having that reset button on the left of the row like that. That's where the submit button is on nearly all other forums, and so I clicked it by accident. I hearby demand that you change the buttons around, and that you do so immediately & don't wait a week for other input! (Well.. Since I missed the original excitement, I had to create some of my onw. :p ) ----- At the end of the day, you're left with a bent fork & a pissed off rhino. |
Posted at 10:22 on November 16th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | Oh well, as you can see, I've pissed GO off to no end, so in the spirit of equality, I have to do the same to you I'm not really active in any other forums anymore, but I tracked down a PHPBB and a vBulletin which allowed me to see their posting form without creating an account. The buttons were arranged like this there: PHPBB: [Preview] [Submit] vBulletin: [Submit] [Preview] I think those two are the most widely used pieces of forum software, and they don't seem to agree on this issue. Back when I started developing the board, I modelled these things after the old Ikonboard, so I guess it was the same there, and thus, it's most likely the same order as on today's Invisionboard (can't seem to find one which lets me see the posting form). So, unless you can actually show me some proof that 'nearly all other forums' actually do have a different button order, I'm reluctant to change this. Bottom right makes sense in my opinion anyway, because top-left to bottom-right is the ususal direction of reading / working on forms in countries which use the latin alphabet. Arguably, the reset button is a little pointless on the 'New Topic' form, but on 'Reply' (great when you have quoted another post) and 'Edit', it's very useful, so I'm also not really willing to remove it altogether. Maybe there's another way to make it clearer what's what? Like setting this button apart from the others a little or something like that? Any ideas? ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! |
Posted at 21:43 on November 16th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Retired Gumby Posts: 740 | I think IPB is a little more common that phpbb (which is strange since it's A) the most expensive forum out there & B) the people running it are liars, who origianlly claimed it would always be free). IPB quick reply [submit][more options[close quick reply] IPB normal replay/new thread [add reply][preview post] proboards (origianlly based on YABB) [post reply][preview][spell check][reset] vbulletin fast reply [submit reply][go advanced] vbulletin normal reply [submit reply][preview post] yuku quick reply [quick reply] yuku normal reply/new thread [preview][post][cancel] ezboard [add reply] phpbb [preview][submit] Out of all of those, phpbb is the ONLY one that puts it on the right, yuku's normal reply put it in the middle, and everything else puts it on the left. Additionally, proboards/yabb is the only other one that includes a reset button (really, is it that hard to hit ctlr+a->del?) Additionally, nearly all other modern boards (except for ezboard, which arguably isn't very modern) have alt+s to submit, which renders the location of the submit button a moot point. ...While we're on the topic of forum appearances, the "register" link really shouldn't show up at the top of the forum when you're already logged in. Not a major issue of course, but it'd look more professional if the register link disappeared when you're logged in. ----- At the end of the day, you're left with a bent fork & a pissed off rhino. ----- Edited by Cypherswipe at 21:44 on November 16th, 2008 |
Posted at 23:08 on November 16th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Admin Reborn Gumby Posts: 11098 | Quote: Out of all of those, phpbb is the ONLY one that puts it on the right Yes, but at least that makes it two board which do it this way: PHPBB and this one Alright, this is a bit more data you accumulated there (shows how much I know of other boards these days - I haven't even heard of 'Yuku'). I still think there has to be another way, though, because as I said, I consider it the most logical position (reading direction). Let me give it a thought for the usual amount of time Quote: the "register" link really shouldn't show up at the top of the forum when you're already logged in Why? It's a configurable option of the board whether multiple accounts per e-mail address and such are allowed. I have multiple accounts here. Why should I be forced to log out to register another one if I really want to (for whatever reason)? Also, I think the bar would lose its visual balance and the 'Lost Password' link would move to the left (very bad idea to have the same option moving around) if that word weren't there. What would you place there instead for authenticated users? Quote: really, is it that hard to hit ctlr+a->del? That's not the same effect. What you're proposing removes all the text from the textarea. What if you're editing a post or quoting one in a reply? Then, the reset button won't remove the text, but restore it. As I said, I acknowledge it's a little bit pointless when posting a new topic, but you see, it's in fact always the same form, no matter which of these actions you're committing. I guess I'll make an exception in the code to have the button only on the forms where it might make sense, though, i.e. only include the reset button in the cases mentioned above. Quote: alt+s to submit Hmm.... I don't think that's such a great idea. I don't even use a mouse 90% of the time, but work exclusively with the keyboard. To achieve this, my computer's whole interface is fine tuned with lots and lots of keyboard functions - many of which rely on combinations with the ALT key. Using such a combination in an 'application within an application' (i.e. a forum in a browser) could seriously mess such a setup up. If not mine, certainly someone else's. Something like this is, in my opinion, the browser's job. For example, I type 'F' and then 'JQ' to submit this form - works fine and it's universally usable within the browser on any site. Anyway, you gave me quite a bit of food for thoughts. I'm sure I'll come up with a first attempt tomorrow. ----- Now you see the violence inherent in the system! |
Posted at 23:09 on November 16th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Master Gumby Posts: 82 | I intend to give some kind of response to all this eventually - when I have more time to worry about such things besides what usually takes priority. For now though, I am satisfied with the color change. ----- |
Posted at 23:35 on November 16th, 2008 | Quote | Edit | Delete | |
Member Retired Gumby Posts: 740 | The lost password link is as redundant while logged in as the register link is. If you don't remember your password, then howTF did you log in in the first place?? If you allow multiple accts, then I guess the register link still serves a function while logged in. However, this is the first site I've ever seen that actually allows multiple accts. The vast majority of sites vehemently prohibit multiple accts. Because of that, it never occurred to me that this site might allow multis & thus that the register link might still have a function while logged in. (Although, you'd have to log out to switch to your new acct, so having to log out before being able to set up a new acct isn't really adding any steps.) Yuku is the new ezboard. They're doing away with all the old ezboards & pushing everyone onto yuku. Alt+s is a standard keyboard shortcut to submit forms in a browser (at least on windows). All full function windopws browsers (ie, not including text only browsers & experimental/incomplete stuff that doesn't even support javascript) have alt+s as the submit shortcut, and 90% of all forms on any website support the alt+s shortcut. Submitting a form is the only thing alt+s does in a windows browser & it doesn't do anything on any prog not in focus (ie, even if it does something very different in another prog you have running, that doesn't matter unless you have the other prog in focus.) I don't have any experience with non-windows systems (other than extremely limited linux/bsd experience), so I don't know to what degree that holds up with other systems. I do know however that the vast majority of websites have the alt+s shortcut for submitting forms (technically, it's a 'accesskey="s"' property added to the submit button), so it has to be a pretty universal thing (at least to the point of not interfering with other functions). As far as the reset button goes: I've never seen it on any other forums (I only started visiting that one proboard forum recently) & have never used it here, so I didn't know that it left quotes/reverted edits. Nonetheless, ctrl+z will undo whatever changes you've made & is more convenient than clicking a button. As far as making the submit button stand out: That could work. Maybe make it larger than the others, or a different color that will stand out. ----- At the end of the day, you're left with a bent fork & a pissed off rhino. |