The Spam Club

» The Spam Club - Life, The Universe and Everything - Site Issues - Quo Vadis?
ReplyNew TopicNew Poll
» Multiple Pages: 123

Quo Vadis?

Posted at 11:03 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Member
Master Gumby
Posts: 127
Originally posted by Moebius at 18:11 on October 18th, 2019:
Originally posted by LostInSpace at 17:31 on October 18th, 2019:
Originally posted by Moebius at 14:00 on October 17th, 2019:

Speaking of German... LostInSpace, can I ask why you write your reviews in German whereas it seems your English is more than acceptable to do it yourself? At least in my humble opinion.


Thanks for asking. Yes, I could imagine to translate my review by myself. But I'm also kind of lazy. So I decided to let Mr Creosote do the job. And honesty, until now I underestimated the importance of this german-based website in the english-speaking area. And I'm not sure if I'm willing to do this additional translation-job every time I write a review. No disresepect, but I do this contributions just for pure fun.


Yeah, sorry. The German part of TGOD is so obscure that I have actually completely forgotten about it. You are, of course, entitled to write reviews in your own language as long as the other division officially exists. But I think closing it would be to everyone's benefit. I suppose you could still write reviews just in English, without having to translate it to German?


I understand Moebius' point of view. It's like this other website called oldgames.sk which is based somewhere in Czechoslovakia or at least in eastern Europe. Imagine they write their stuff in their mother-language! Nobody can ever handle this. Websites with such an international topic like PC-games have to be in English. German is sort of luxury in this case.

Originally posted by Mr Creosote at 18:10 on October 18th, 2019:
There is a certain process of writing, taking notes, putting them into shape, going through iterations etc. Then I feel I'm done. I'm happy with the text. But then I basically need to re-do it in another language. That sucks!


I like and respect the English language. But this is not my way of thinking. The process of creation will always be in German. What I like about this website is it's German root. There are many other websites out there which contributes reviews. But TGOD is kind of a base in my own country.

So, to answer Moebius' question: my English reviews will stay a translation and won't be just directly written in English.
-----
A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code.
Posted at 13:26 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Admin
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 9166
Re. language. It wouldn't necessarily go in the direction of English only. Might as well be the other way around, even if it is the minority audience. It may be an "international" topic overall, but there are quite different local facets which get lost trying to stay "international". Just think of the completely diverging socialization in the 80s between USA (NES) and Europe (home computers).

Deciding one way or the other, however, may be needed at some point, because as soon as you try to incorporate information from other sources and quote them, you will not find equivalent sources in different languages anyway.

Re. contributions. I'm surprised that the discussion is again about how to encourage more of them. My initial point was to limit or even disallow them altogether.
-----
Now you see the violence inherent in the system!
-----
Edited by Mr Creosote at 13:35 on October 19th, 2019
Posted at 16:34 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Global Moderator
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 5334
Quote:
So, to answer Moebius' question: my English reviews will stay a translation and won't be just directly written in English.


Fair enough!

Quote:
My initial point was to limit or even disallow them altogether.


Ok, then why do you care about people leaving or not finding this place? What exactly do you need them for?
-----
Cheer up! Remember the less you have, the more there is to get.

I am on irc.freenode.org: #TGOD
Posted at 17:59 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Admin
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 9166
Originally posted by Moebius at 16:34 on October 19th, 2019:
Quote:
My initial point was to limit or even disallow them altogether.


Ok, then why do you care about people leaving or not finding this place? What exactly do you need them for?

Sorry, at some point, this becomes stupid. Why publish something if nobody sees it? Could we stop this useless side-stream of the discussion?
-----
Now you see the violence inherent in the system!
Posted at 19:09 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Global Moderator
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 5334
Quote:
Could we stop this useless side-stream of the discussion?


Sure. Only remember, no one's coming here just to read your reviews (obviously, though, not for you), so maybe you should consider closing this place down and stopping wasting your and our time. Also, maybe you should learn to make yourself clear to people, because your being verbose and ambiguous all the way is almost next to trolling while we are genuinely trying to see your point and help. Unfortunately for you, no one here can understand you completely. I guess we are all retarded. Good thing I used myself as a decoy, I can live with it, while others will be more careful with their questions and assumptions. Though, I'm pretty sure, this is the end of discussion for everyone. We don't have anything more to add, and I'm not even afraid of speaking on other people's behalf.
-----
Cheer up! Remember the less you have, the more there is to get.

I am on irc.freenode.org: #TGOD
-----
Edited by Moebius at 19:52 on October 19th, 2019
Posted at 19:53 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Member
Master Gumby
Posts: 127
This conclusion remembers me on our conversation about the redesign of TGOD website. We startet and even made some progress in reaching a general idea of what the new design could look like. Then there was a sudden interrupt, caused be some disagreements. But we are all grown-up persons and act like little children.

Originally posted by Mr Creosote at 17:59 on October 19th, 2019:
Originally posted by Moebius at 16:34 on October 19th, 2019:
Quote:
My initial point was to limit or even disallow them altogether.


Ok, then why do you care about people leaving or not finding this place? What exactly do you need them for?

Sorry, at some point, this becomes stupid. Why publish something if nobody sees it? Could we stop this useless side-stream of the discussion?


Then please follow up the mainline of this discussion. Sorry, if I provoked some questions some steps away from the initial intention Mr Creosote was asking for. I don't think Mr Creosote wants to troll anyone. This is just his way to say, that the dicussion is going to take the wrong direction. Is this ok for everyone, to continue at this point?
-----
A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code.
Posted at 19:54 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Global Moderator
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 5334
Quote:
Is this ok for everyone, to continue at this point?


If you have any other ideas, personally I rest my case.
-----
Cheer up! Remember the less you have, the more there is to get.

I am on irc.freenode.org: #TGOD
Posted at 20:42 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Moderator
Retired Gumby
Posts: 1199
Originally posted by Mr Creosote at 17:59 on October 19th, 2019:
Could we stop this useless side-stream of the discussion?

Originally posted by Moebius at 19:54 on October 19th, 2019:
Quote:
Is this ok for everyone, to continue at this point?


If you have any other ideas, personally I rest my case.


OK, I have got an idea: Why do not we talk about all this bitterness? Why so much hate? Why do especially you two (Mr Creosote and Moebius) pick each other apart that much? Might be a bit side-tracking, but to me this is rather important.

I mean: As long as everything that is said and done is nitpicked ad extremum and things get personal we will be getting nowhere.

Maybe we just have different priorities? Maybe we all see different problems and solutions? Just because others fail to recognize them does not mean that they are invalid.

We are all passionate about this site, otherwise we would not be here. So, do not tell me you do not care, I would instantly call you a liar. :P And do not tell me there is nothing to be done or that everything is hunky-dory, because why are we having this conversation?

Come on, we cobbled something great together here. Let's hang on to it! :)
-----
Dear Sir, I object strongly with the last thread, and the next post.
Posted at 20:51 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Admin
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 9166
If I didn't care, I wouldn't be here.

I've not been picking on anyone, nor have I picked anything anyone has said apart.

I've not been ambiguous. How I'm envisioning this site should be is there in plain, explicit words in the very first post. Along with a number of issues and potential showstoppers about getting there.

Yes, we can close the discussion if you guys feel like it. Then I will just take my own decision. Or we can continue and you can all have your say. Would be nice if this worked without neurotic outbreaks, however.
-----
Now you see the violence inherent in the system!
Posted at 21:20 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Global Moderator
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 5334
Quote:
OK, I have got an idea: Why do not we talk about all this bitterness? Why so much hate?


No hate on my part, I just can't keep trying to please Mr Creosote and hold myself back when he implicitly downgrades my intelligence in front of everybody. Don't take this too seriously, though, we've been down that road before and kind of got used to it. Not the first time and probably not the last one either, unless I refrain from these discussions altogether, which I swore I would a while ago. Oh well, I thought I could help...

Quote:
So, do not tell me you do not care, I would instantly call you a liar.


Of course I do, I wouldn't deny it for a second. And if we don't help Mr Creosote promote his reviews he might as well just terminate us all. Don't get me wrong, it's not what I want, it's what the logical outcome should be, because in my opinion there is no way he can get tons of readers or top-notch reviewers for his personal pleasure. Not here at any rate. Maybe he really should publish his reviews on youtube instead if he wants PR so badly.

Quote:
Then I will just take my own decision.


Sounds good to me.

Quote:
Would be nice if this worked without neurotic outbreaks, however.


No outbreaks, I just choose to be honest about my feelings especially when it seems things can't get any worse.

Anyway, sorry, everyone. Please, carry on. Guess I'm too presumptuous to speak for others, after all. I'll just go sit in the corner for now.
-----
Cheer up! Remember the less you have, the more there is to get.

I am on irc.freenode.org: #TGOD
-----
Edited by Moebius at 03:38 on October 20th, 2019
Posted at 21:52 on October 19th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Moderator
Retired Gumby
Posts: 1199
I just want to ask you to try to keep in mind that it can be super hard to tell how someone really feels about something just by reading something they wrote. So much missing subtext. Especially ironic, cynicical and sardonic comments can be interpreted in sooo many ways. And I hope I do not get on anyone's nerves for commenting on this. Usually I am rather reserved and try to simply get along, but I am getting the impression that there is some kind of misunderstanding that is getting out of hand. Some of the bad mood might stem from starting to go in circles-

So, how about we try to cast a vote on some of the things? Without commenting too much on it, I guess we did enough of that already. I am going first and will try to address the topics as clearly as possible. If I should miss something that seems important just add a question to it.

  • Remove Downloads? Partially, follow the semi-official "remove if legally available", keep unique content
  • Bilinguality? Yes, but do not make it compulsory
  • Contributions? Higher quality standards, stop wasting time on 300 word reviews, I like Mobius vote suggestion
  • Make good reviews more visible? Yes
  • Keep the database? YES
  • Create index for unique downloads? Yes
  • Try to improve existing reviews? Yes, I think at least some of the suggestions in the original post should be doable
  • More Marketing? I think we all agreed on that one
  • More Google exposure? No opinion, no clue on how to do that
  • Create game disks? Interesting idea, depends on the content, no fan of monetization

Personally I think most of those questions do not have a simple answer, there are so many pro and cons to any of them. But we should try to find some kind of common ground and stick to it.
-----
Dear Sir, I object strongly with the last thread, and the next post.
-----
Edited by Herr M. at 21:54 on October 19th, 2019
Posted at 08:16 on October 20th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Admin
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 9166
Moebius, may I ask you one question? Do you represent the People's Front of Judea or the Judean People's Front? Don't you think all this infighting us just a little ridiculous?
-----
Now you see the violence inherent in the system!
-----
Edited by Mr Creosote at 10:07 on October 20th, 2019
Posted at 16:09 on October 20th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Global Moderator
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 5334
Originally posted by Mr Creosote at 08:16 on October 20th, 2019:
Moebius, may I ask you one question? Do you represent the People's Front of Judea or the Judean People's Front? Don't you think all this infighting us just a little ridiculous?


I suppose this is your little revenge for my parallels. Ok, cool. Look, just focus on the discussion, please, I will no longer interfere. Maybe I misunderstood you, sorry. Anyway, I really don't think I can contribute anything to this topic anymore, I've pretty much emptied myself.
-----
Cheer up! Remember the less you have, the more there is to get.

I am on irc.freenode.org: #TGOD
Posted at 16:36 on October 20th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Member
Master Gumby
Posts: 127
Originally posted by Moebius at 16:09 on October 20th, 2019:
Originally posted by Mr Creosote at 08:16 on October 20th, 2019:
Moebius, may I ask you one question? Do you represent the People's Front of Judea or the Judean People's Front? Don't you think all this infighting us just a little ridiculous?


I suppose this is your little revenge for my parallels. Ok, cool. Look, just focus on the discussion, please, I will no longer interfere. Maybe I misunderstood you, sorry. Anyway, I really don't think I can contribute anything to this topic anymore, I've pretty much emptied myself.


It's really hard to express that duality: this is a deal with interests and time investment. The reviews get more attention by publishing them in English, which is an additional effort we as German reviewers have to spend. But the stagnation of visitors prove that this is only half of the truth. Also important is the perception in small groups or communities like that irc channel of Moebius. The decline of attention leads Mr Creosote to ask questions. Is it the design? Is it the quality of content? Is it the point-system? Maybe we should start the other way round: What drive visitors apart? That would be also interesting for me, because I for myself like this website as it is. :)
-----
A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code.
Posted at 19:58 on October 20th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Admin
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 9166
Originally posted by LostInSpace at 16:36 on October 20th, 2019:

That's probably the biggest issue of such discussions: those who can/will participate, by default, don't see a need for change or even re

That's probably the biggest issue of such discussions: those who can/will participate, by default, don't see a need for change or even resent it.
-----
Now you see the violence inherent in the system!
Posted at 20:43 on October 20th, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Member
Master Gumby
Posts: 121
Wow... what a topic. It's difficult to catch up. But I'm following the discussion carefully.

Many things are already said concerning reviews.

I think another unique part of TGOD is the floppy archive which grow largely during the last two years. But its updates are hidden in one thread in the forum. This could be published on the main page to make it more visible to users. We already made several suggestions to improve the visualisation and accessibility to make it more valuable to users.
Another type of reviews could be the comparison of different versions of the same game. But I'm not sure, if there is something interesting to tell about or if the differences are too marginally.

Just recently, I discovered the quiz. Maybe something like this but with user-interactions could be a path to explore and attract users regularly. (E.g. allow users to post screenshots and users can tip the game. The user who won, can post the next screen.)

Sorry, I'm also not very connected in social media and I can't help on that front.
Posted at 16:22 on October 21st, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Moderator
Retired Gumby
Posts: 1199
Some further thoughts:
-) Split the reviews in several categories, depending on their word count. The higher the word count, the more attention the review should get to get finished, that is each and every detail entered into the database. Maybe even split the database or add a filter that helps finding the more elaborative reviews.
-) Speaking of searching and finding: If Google fails to index the page decently, it seems all the more important to me, that the search function is as flexible as possible. Like mentioned above add a word count or length filter. Or how about a obscurity filter listing the games per visitor count.
-) Add comments to the screen shots in order to either make them more informative or at least more interesting.
-) Speaking of which: Some of the screen shots could still be improved.
-) I already mentioned it, but it seems really important to me (others have also hinted at it): I think it is important to show activity. Nothing is more off putting (at least to me) than a forum with age old threads and a news section with irregular updates.
-----
Dear Sir, I object strongly with the last thread, and the next post.
Posted at 18:00 on October 21st, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Admin
Reborn Gumby
Posts: 9166
All totally valid and important points. My goal, however, is to reduce efforts to a manageable amount. Not increase it.
-----
Now you see the violence inherent in the system!
Posted at 19:37 on October 21st, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Member
Master Gumby
Posts: 127
Originally posted by fuxxxyfloppy at 20:43 on October 20th, 2019:

I think another unique part of TGOD is the floppy archive which grow largely during the last two years. But its updates are hidden in one thread in the forum.


My initial contact to TGOD was about getting floppy images. So, I had to write at least two Reviews maybe the first time in my life to get the points for the download. I think this would be a good starting point to improve the website-layout. Just create an independent menu-item to get direct access to the download area for floppy discs. This seems to be not too much effort to reach a massive improvement for the public.
-----
A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code.
Posted at 17:16 on October 22nd, 2019 | Quote | Edit | Delete
Avatar
Moderator
Retired Gumby
Posts: 1199
OK, some suggestions for a decrease in work load:
-) If two staff member agree on a submission being sub-par it gets deleted without further discussion.
-) Correction suggestions are still OK, but if they are essentially a rewrite it might be better to outright drop the submission.
-) If someone fails to answer a question about their submission within a week delete it. If they are really serious about it they will re-submit it anyways.
-) Disk images are opened up by one of the following things: One review for a game not in the database OR two reviews for games already in the database OR 20 (verified) disk images. Effectively this would lower the point limit to 20, though I would not put this in the FAQ, instead simply write those three options.
-) I would probably still keep the quota, i.e. one point = 1 image download.
-) Increase the quality standards for reviews: More than 50% of the review must be about the actual game, it has to mention at least something about the game play, how it feels to play the game, how the game influenced other games or how it was unique in its way, some outstanding feature or why you should/should not play this game. Less than 50% should be a history lesson or system requirements.
-) Only games which were originally released in German need a compulsory German review. Everywhere else I think it would be OK to have them optional. Maybe consider opening up a dedicated German games section.

As for my other thoughts mentioned above:
-) I do not think that the one about activity needs that much involvement. In a way that is our current goal, is not it? If you write a super fine review and there is no response, do you feel overly motivated to keep on writing?
-) Are the top 10 lists really that hard to implement? The statistics are already there, making them a bit more public might increase interest in the site. And like I said a top 10 of the most obscure ones could draw more attention to all those games that deserve more attention.
-----
Dear Sir, I object strongly with the last thread, and the next post.
» Multiple Pages: 123
ReplyNew TopicNew Poll
Powered by Spam Board 5.2.4 © 2007 - 2011 Spam Board Team