Well yeah but thats when the plan becomes more like dream than an actual project.

He already has and he already got that reply

Well, just ask an engineer, and he will tell that without any kind of plan technical support is useless (even more, some will tell you that if you want to design something you must lack technical knowledge, because it will only distract you from the general idea), unless you want to start making things as you until you create a mess. But anyway, if you want we can leave the topic.

You can plan all you want but without the technical support to back you up, my friend I'm lost.

PS: Again, let's not make this about me as my intentions with this post weren't about me.

I see nothing technical there, that's still the planning and designing part, for that you don't need informatics knowledge. Just look around and decide what will your page offer, how will it work, how will it look, which people will use it, what will you offer them, how will it interest them... That's just planning.

That's where the "technical" part of the problem is.

And how will you use that? How will you mix a ring and one of these social networks?

Like I said before, now days everyone (but Mr. Creo over hrere) uses social networks. We can use that to create a whole new crowd to come over and get interested again in old games.

Even if you go and heck out Facebook, there're tons of people creating "groups" based on old games. We can not only get new crowd but also expand the term of abandonware to the community.

I think this is the central issue: What do you want to do to set your ring apart? I'm geniuinely curious, because quite frankly, that is what you should be thinking about instead of technical issues. Technology only supplements, it never solves things on its own.

The problem with rings is that they are used by a hundred people. We have two rings for a hundred people, and you want to create a third because that hundred needs another one. Yet for some reason you think a new ring for being new will attract the people who doesn't use rings.

As said, I personally say that I would give you my support you will have to offer something. Because, bluntly, the people at Da Fast Lane looked much more prepared, with the ideas much clearer, with a lot of will to work on their idea and they created a new ring without asking for help, and maintained it with care. But it didn't last. What will make yours different? You having faith on your ideas?

Haha.. (I wonder what you come up with next).

...apart from rings.

And that fits the category of most abandonware sites.

That's true for sites whose sole purpose isn't distributing visitors from one corner of the Internet to the next.

Should that stop new people from creating new sites? I mean what is the point of creating a new site if you know that you won't get any visitors?

Is it always about visitors? Sometimes you just think that by sharing information you might help a small group of people and if you accomplish that then your goals are set.

You don't need millions of visitors to run a site, you need the few to keep pushing you for more.

The problem is that you two look at this from different perspectives. You, marhasan, are talking about the webmaster's perspective: Only few sites are found on Google. Wandrell, however, talks about the visitor's perspective: These people are only searching at Google. So the consequence is that they'll only ever see those first few sites. Rings don't even get into the picture, no matter whether they're there or not. You are right that rings could help to give more exposure to lesser known sites. However, only if visitors are using them. Which they aren't.

Google doesn't index every site. You wouldn't be able to find "A Penny For The Ferryman" in google. Let's be serious and think about it for a second, if you look for a game on google the first couple of pages will result in probably Abandonia and if the best care scenario XTC Abandonware. Everything else is crap.

If it wasn't for the rings these sites would probably be lost forever. The ring helps a webmaster showcase their sites and even bring a little more visitors to the site.

Please let me know if you still don't get my point and I can throw in better thought explanation. Other than that I don't see a reason for this conversation.

Well, no. Playing old games because we like it is not being stuck in the past. Reviving rings is more akin to wanting to revive guilds, saying the old economic system was better because it used to work.

And why do we update our listing? Should we tell it? It's so secretly keeped that I don't know if I should... But hell, I'll tell you: we update our lists because otherwise when you add a new game there will be nowhere to find it. And if you aren't talking about the page game's list I suppose you are asking why we tell the rings we updated. I think Creo made the page send the notice automatically.

The thing is: Why do you want to revive rings? And why do you want to revive them when nobody uses them and nobody will? Just like video killed radio stars, google killed rings. There no use, people won't care. At much, there are the links on each page, but I'm not sure most people take a look at them.

When creating something, when starting with a project people will always expect you, the creator, to have clear ideas, and to take a look to see if it works. I have not seen any reason to revive rings, and I don't even have clear if you want to revive TUOL or just create a ring, nor your reasons for doing so.

If rings are dead then what is the point in wasting time updating your listing every time you add a game? I see it as an important part of the scene and let's not forget google has been around for ages now.

Asking for a dead... I'm not asking for fame or whatever you want to call it. It was a proposition and you can say I failed to point out the message.

"Instead of trying to revive a dead part of the past, just because you can't get past it." Isn't this why we play old games in the first place? As far as I'm concern I play videogames for that same reason.

Marhasan, it's first a thing of time (programming a ring requires time), but also a thing of how much interest you put into it. Asking for a dead ring in hopes of become the heir of it's old fame won't work, in part because let's face it, it was so long ago nobody will recall it, along the hard truth that nobody uses rings today (I used TUOL a lot, but nowadays things changed), but mostly it won't work because you show how much of yourself are you willing to put into the project.

Also, the scene isn't dead. It's the same always. It's as alive as it was you can say IF are dead, yet there are people making and playing them, and the same for pen & paper RPGs, miniature wargames or any hobby that isn't mainstream.

But these hobbies don't die. They change as new people comes and the older ones start running in circles saying god will come tomorrow to punish us all. Then the new ones become old ones and all repeats.

If you want to help the scene take a look, see what works and what people needs, then make it. Instead of trying to revive a dead part of the past, just because you can't get past it.

Yes, it's dead. Rings are dead because now people uses google. Because now people uses networks of all kinds, because they want to get into a single big page with reviews, downloads, screenshots and if possible gameplay videos. Where they could add things easily if they wish, but mostly where they can revive quickly their infancies.